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estradiol vs. estriol question......... estradiol vs. estriol question.........

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Unread 06-28-2005, 08:55 AM
estradiol vs. estriol question.........


After reading "Sudden Menopause", I read that, when not pregnant and premenopausal, a women's ovaries produce more estradiol than estriol. How is it then that most compounded biestrogens are 80 % estriol and only 20% estradiol? I know about the information concerning estradiol being the hormone that proliferates breast tissue most and estriol being the hormone that is supposedly anti-cancerous. But it just makes sense to me to not mimic a pregnant women's hormone profile, but to mimic a premenopausal. What do you think?
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Unread 06-28-2005, 09:23 PM
estradiol vs. estriol question.........

I was wondering the same thing. I just started on the bi-est 3 weeks ago, and although I feel better than on the vivelle patch .075, I think I still need a little more estradiol. I still have I was wondering if the compounding pharmacy can change the percentage to add a little more estradiol to the mix. Has anyone out there tried this.

Unread 06-29-2005, 04:14 AM
estradiol vs. estriol question.........

HI Wendytubbs

That is a good question which I really don't know the answer to. Maybe someone else will be of more help.

I choose to use the Bi-est because it also contains Estriol which is the weaker estrogen out of the 3 estrogens we produce and also has many benefits that estradiol and estrone do not have. I read in a book that I have, Natural Hormone Balance by Uzzi Reiss (which is a wonderful book to read) that Estriol produces a protective counterbalancing effect against the more aggressive estrogens...estradiol and estrone.(which convert back and forth)

It is true we produce more Estriol during pregancy and his book claims that research proves the more full term pregnancies we have the less risk of developing breast and ovarian cancer along with many female diseases such as endometriosis, adenomyosis, cysts and fibroids. In the past he practiced where there are still a majority of women carrying multiple full term pregancies and they did not have the female problems and female cancers that many women here have. During pregnancy you also produce more progesterone so that may be in part some of the reason and not just because of the estriol.

In the past women use to have more than 10 full term pregnancies and the diseases and cancers were no where near as high as they are today. This is just my and part of the reason why I choose to use Bi-est

Hi blondie

Yes the pharmacist can change the strength of the bi-est to contain more estradiol. When I first started my bi-est it was 80%estriol and 20% estradiol. I was still having some low estrogen symptoms and the doctor felt instead of raising the estrogen dose that I should change the ratio of bi-est to 60% estriol and 40% estradiol. I have used that ratio for 2 years and feel very good with it.

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Unread 06-29-2005, 12:09 PM
estradiol vs. estriol question.........

This is so interesting. There is just so much to experiment with and learn about!!! I am on Tri est.. 62%estriol 25% estradiol 12% estrone. I just started it this week so we'll see how it goes. I just read that doctors in Europe perscribe Estriol routinely in place of the estradiol and estrone, it is the "weakest" of the 3, yet women with higher levels of estriol have far lower risks of breast cancer. Estradiol is the most commonly measured type of estrogen, and it falls to a low but constant level aftermenopause. Increased levels suggest an increase of breast and and endometrial cancer. And estrone is also the major source of estrogen in postmenopausal women (with their parts!) Unfortunately some of us have no ovaries, so we will be producing nothing. It seems to me women who don't have ovaries should always have some type of low low dose of estrogens for their whole lives, doesn't it?
Unread 07-03-2005, 11:40 AM
estradiol vs. estriol question.........

Hi wendytubbs

I have a medical/scientific degree and I'm sure I drive the doctors crazy with my researching and questioning mainstream HRT.

Prior to my surgery, I purchased the book: "Safe Estrogen, reduce your risk of breast cancer by 90%" Dr. Edward Conley.

I have a stong family history of ovarian cancer (one of the reasons I had the BSO with the LAVH) - but I'm very aware that the gene that has the error on it for ovarian cancer, also has the error on it for breast cancer, so this is why I'm either not going to do any HRT (I'm 4 weeks post op w/minimal symptoms) or I'll go for the Estriol (Bi-est) per the information in Dr. Conley's book.
Right now I'm boosting my fermented soy intake and taking 1200 mg Calcium/Vit D (for osteo), and Vitamin E complex and Omega-3 as well as adding flax seed to my diet (for heart disease protection, which is also strong in my family).

Note: in the book he contrasts fermented vs non-fermented soy. The Japanese ingest high amounts of fermented soy daily and have a much lower rate of breast cancer and few menopause issues. Many women in the US push to increase non-fermented soy in their diets (tofu, soy shakes, soybeans) and this is not the same type that the Japanese ingest. (Just restating some studies I've found, don't know if they are true..but they are interesting).

Your question is a good one: why mimic a pregnant woman's hormone profile in a post-menopausal woman?
Estriol (per the book) does show protective properties against the stronger Estrone and Estradiol.

My dr is pushing for the 100% Estradiol (patch), which I've resisted so far. I'll visit a new doctor this week, as I'm still in a quandry about what to do about this HRT issue. I do want to protect the vaginal/bladder area, so perhaps the Bi-Est creme is for me via that route.

If you get the chance to read that book, it has some interesting strategies to hopefully prevent breast cancer, while navigating the HRT issue. I do wish there was a bit more information on the long term usage and safety of some of these HRT options.

Unread 07-03-2005, 02:50 PM
estradiol vs. estriol question.........

If you do bioidenticals you can have the ratio of estriol higher than the estradiol since they are custom made to fit you personally. Just a thought. I have a question... what kind of fermented soy are you taking? I would really like to also increase my fermented soy intake.. but am not sure what to get. I have also read that non fermented soy doesn't have the benefit that fermented does. Also, is the flax seed you take ground? I've also added cal/mag, omega 3, a multi, Vit E (and EPOil since my hair is falling out and looks like crap.) I will also get the book you recommended.
Unread 07-03-2005, 05:15 PM
estradiol vs. estriol question.........

Hi slc (Sue)

I'm still pondering the use of HRT (bioidenticals, and most likely a mix: Bi-est with whichever % estriol/estradiol vaginally and perhaps a transdermal cream.)

For the most part I feel great!! Rare warm glows, sleeping better and headaches are fading away. So- I'm trying to figure out if I should ride this out w/o HRT (and "bone-up" on some Calcium/D exercise or Fosomax/Actonel).

I really want to maintain the vag/bladder area, so I'll likely go with a bioidentical estriol/estradiol for that strategy. But nothing is permitted vaginally til I'm at my 6 weeks .. so I'm pre-planning.

I want my skin and hair to stay nice <sigh> hope this is possible!
And since there's heart disease in my family too - I'm on Zocor to lower cholesterol (works great).. but Vitamin E complex (the natural form d- not the dl- form) is what I'm taking. The book I referenced goes into why you need the Vitamin E "complex". There are some other "Es" that are important in heart/breast protection.

I've read that the non-fermented soy does not carry the same benefit as fermented, and may carry some risks, such as: blocking absorption of calcium (not good for osteo), and some thyroid concerns. I visited the store Whole Foods Market <Oops! Please don't link to commercial websites. Do a Google search to find this company. > and they carry only ONE soy powder to mix into a shake called: Jarrow Forumulas Fermented Soy Essence. It has calcium and magnesium in it too.
I put 8 oz orange juice (w/calcium) in a blender, add bananas, strawberries, blend...then add the powder & blend, then add crushed ice for a wonderful fruit smoothie!

That Whole Foods site has great info - go to Health Info, Nutrition Reference Library...and look up vitamins, herbs...very informative site!

Miso and Tempeh are both fermented soy products.
I'm learning how to make my own miso soup (lots of recipes online), and will try to master the Tempeh too.
Neither one looks too appetizing to me right now, so I may be sipping the soy fruit smoothies!

I use whole ground flax seed - sprinkle it in oatmeal, make muffins w/raisins/dates/nuts. Can't even tell it's there!

Be sure and check out that book - it's pretty interesting, and he backs up his info with research studies.

Unread 07-03-2005, 10:22 PM
estradiol vs. estriol question.........


Thanks for the info. I also take the E in natural form, not dl. Iwas in Whole Foods today getting some! I will try Jarrow. I also need more recipes with tempeh and miso, but smoothies sound great for the time being! I eat Japanese food alot, so Miso soup is one of my favorites. Thanks for your help. Good luck and happy 4th.

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