Ode to Estroven.

Extra-strength, that is.

So, after a horrific reaction to Enjuvia, I've been self-medicating with evening primrose, vitamin B complex, magnesium, St. John's Wort, and low-dose aspirin for that pesky heart of mine. Doing okay, but still getting hot flashes, and waking up at night, except when I take an Ambien. So, I decided to try Estroven, the most popular and longest-lived OTC menopausal supplement I could find. I also started taking Black Cohosh.

After a week taking it, all I can say, is Thank you! to its manufacturers. Wow! I feel soooo much better. I've been calmer, more physically comfortable than since before my surgery, and am losing the bloat weight that's plagued me since then. I've also got my old energy back. Whether it's the addition of the Estroven, the black cohosh, or both, it's working. I feel better than I have in ages. Just thought I'd share, so maybe other sisters will try it.

I am so glad you are feeling better, but do be careful , as taking too much black cohosh can have serious side effects. There has been reported liver damage as well. Natural does not necessarily mean safer.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bla...0F0C9BA298EAC0



s

Thank you for your concern. I wonder about something, though............

Do you have a vendetta against black cohosh? Re-read the article you referenced above - there is no proof that the black cohosh caused liver failure. There is suspicion - that's it.

And I noticed on another thread that you cautioned against black cohosh, based on non-existent evidence. Do you work for a pharmaceutical company, perhaps?

I would recommend visiting an integrative medicine practice. Most large universities have them. The doctors are board certified in family practice and holistic medicine.

This is if you are concerned about taking a certain herbal remedy. They can monitor you while using that product.

	Quote:
Originally Posted by Free! Thank you for your concern. I wonder about something, though............ Do you have a vendetta against black cohosh? Re-read the article you referenced above - there is no proof that the black cohosh caused liver failure. There is suspicion - that's it. And I noticed on another thread that you cautioned against black cohosh, based on non-existent evidence. Do you work for a pharmaceutical company, perhaps?

Goodness -- I'm sorry you have somehow interpreted a member's concern for your safety for some type of "vendetta" or advertising agenda. Let me assure you that I don't work for a pharmaceutical company, or anything related to that ... and suggest that the safety of black cohosh is somewhat controversial these days.

There have been some documented cases of liver failure from black cohosh. However, there have been very few, so it is considered a very low incidence but serious possible side effect. Here's a link to an abstract of one of the first case studies that made the news a few years back:

http://www.menopausejournal.com/pt/r...1050-00013.htm

In addition, there is a special concern for those of us with breast cancer histories, in that in a study done with mice, it was shown that black cohosh caused not only a significant increase in new breast cancers, but also (surprisingly) these breast cancers were much more aggressive and often metastasized to the lungs early on. Granted, this study was done in mice and not humans, but as someone who's been diagnosed with breast cancer twice, it certainly gives me pause. Even estrogen has not been observed to have this effect (in mice or in humans).

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you should not use black cohosh if it works for you for symptom relief. However, you said that are taking both Estroven and black cohosh together. Estroven contains black cohosh as well as soy. That means you may be getting larger than recommended doses of black cohosh. In addition, Estroven contains kava, which is also known to affect liver function.

I'm glad you've found a combination of things that have you feeling so good. You just might want to let your DR know what you're taking -- including all vitamins and supplements -- and perhaps have your liver enzymes checked periodically just to make sure you're not in the small minority that are adversely affected by these substances.

s,
-Linda

My curiosity arose from this same member posting negatively about black cohosh on another thread, on the same day. Neither article referenced stated definitively that black cohosh caused the problems suzyQ referenced. There were suppositions made, and one statement based purely on conjecture (about black cohosh not being safe to take for longer than six months). There have been no studies about that at all. I just don't like people making negative, blanket statements about something potentially (and proven!) to be beneficial, with no basis in fact.

Also, please don't assume that no one else does research before trying something. I realize that Estroven contains soy and black cohosh. I'm taking what is safe, according to the directions on both packages. And curious - it sounds like you think I should be concerned about soy, too? Odd - I never heard of soy as being detrimental to anyone's health.

And if my *&^%^$ doctors had done their jobs and actually treated me , instead of just making the same prescriptions as they've apparently done for many others, I wouldn't have to be wading through this "oasis" by myself. The first one virtually abandoned me. Scratch "virtually"; she just quit returning my calls. The second one didn't have the sense to realize that all the symptoms of my allergic reaction to an Rx he gave me were documented on the package insert (although I didn't know it either, until a Sister pointed it out to me), yet claimed he'd done research on my problem. He took two days to call me back on an emergency call, and then only to say that he wouldn't treat me any more, that I was too complicated a case and needed to consult an endocrinologist.............an hour and a half drive from my home.

So, as far as I'm concerned, doctors stink. I have an appointment with a new one in a couple of weeks, only because I would like to have someone who is a medical professional who knows me, available in case I have a major problem. But I'm not holding my breath on this one, either.

	Quote:
Originally Posted by surferbabe Even estrogen has not been observed to have this effect (in mice or in humans).

I think this statement is incorrect. I've had friends with BC that say they specifically have been forbidden to take estrogen, as it does have an effect on tumor growth/metastasis.

The last WIH study indicated that estrogen alone did not increase the risk of breast cancer. However, doctors are still leary. It only lasted for 7 years. But, the medical stance right now is that estrogen alone does not increase the risk of BC.

Now, I do know that if you have your ovaries removed before you are 45 you halve your risk of breast cancer and the WIH study showed that estrogen and progestrone increase the risk of breast cancer.

If I had BC, I would not take it. Also, I my doctors said to try without it and use it if I am having issues.

My integrative doctor said that there are studdies in England that show that black cohash does not increase the risk of breast cancer. I don't know what they are but she is very sharp about these things so I believe her.

Dear Free, No rain on your parade from me . Hope it always goes well for you . I'm very happy for you . Keep us posted on how it's going .

Hi everyone - has been awhile since i've been on - but thought i'd pop in and seee how everyone is!

I also take Estroven w/ a FANTASTIC multi herbal vitamin (Purity) & have had no hot flashes, eventually insomnia greatly lessened and brain fog, bloating and moodiness all went away in about a month. I now buy it at Costco in the bulk box lol and will occassionally substitute with Estroven pm if cant sleep and works fine. I decided against HRT - I just couldnt decide in the end and thought would TRY this first BEFORE agreed to HRT ...... and have never needed to even think about it.
Just putting the info out there
p.s. tried the MACA root for decreased libido also and also worked GREAT! (another sister posted on here about that - i used ZALESTRA for about 8 wks - my "interest" came back and stayed hahahha