Too much progesterone/estrogen?

Hello again. Well I changed back to vivelle dot .1mg on 8/30 from 1.25mg cenestin that I took for about a wk and ahalf- estrogen dominence symptoms I seem to have with cenestin dr had me try 2.50mg cenestin too. Well now that I changed back I started sleeping through the night finally but when I get up it feels like I'am tranquilized or something also have a headache, dizzy. When I put the progesterone cream on at night I start to feel really bad,
nauseated, heart palpatations, drugged tranquilized feeling, aches and go to sleep within 1/2 hr. When I first started using the prog. cream the heart palps started, I thought it was lack of estrogen now I wonder if too much progesterone cream would cause all these symptoms. I use 40mg 1/4 tsp. 1x at night, Natural progesterone cream by prescription. We tried upping the doses of estrogen then I get estrogen dominence think I finally learned what they are. Very over caffinated feeling wired out, up all night asthma drowning feelings, anxiety hypoglycemia feelings, right? One time before I tried the progest. cream we tried the .75mg vivelle dot patch but I got really bad hot flashes so I feel my choices are to either cut back down on the progest. cream or to try the .75mg patch with this dose of cream. Only been on the cream alittle over 2 wks now. What do you think?
SAH/BSO 6/18/01 Really baffled, and worried about anymore changes.

Hi KarenMarie,
It could be that your estradiol levels are rising because some progesterone can convert to estradiol. It sounds like you are in touch with your body and that will eventually see you through. I see the dilemna.
Were you taking progesterone when you took the .075 vivelle dot?
You could try a few things. But remember to make only one change at a time. You could try one of the following:
*splitting your progesterone current dose Morning and night, maintain current estrogen patch dose.
*cutting your progesterone dose in half and applying once a day, maintain current estrogen patch dose.
*maintain current progesteron dose and reduce the estrogen patch to .075
As always please check with your doctor before adjusting doses.
Best wishes to you

Becky in OHIO

Hi Becky, no I wasn't using the progesterone when I was on the
.075mg. patch, I was on the .1mg patch when I started using it . My Dr. put me on the cenestin 1.25mg but wanted me to take 2 of them but I tried to 2 different times and just couldn't tolerate it,
so stayed on the 1.25mg but even that seemed to high, estrogen
dominence I'm pretty sure. I feel better on the .1mg patch than I did on the 1.25 cenestin but something still is not right. I hate switching around anymore as my Dr. has switched me 4 different times( Premarin, Climara,Vivelle Dot Cenestin back to vivelle as I said this is what I felt the best on.) on 10 different dosages in 2-1/2 months-so
confused, I just want to find a decent balance and stay there for awhile. I know this is not helping being switched around so much.
Noone ever had me decrease my dose when I started progesterone cream but I've read that you should. I May try cutting the Progesterone alittle first and see what happens before I touch the estrogen again -No hot flashes.This is what I've taken.
Premarin1.25, 2.50&3.75mg
Climara .1mg.
Vivelle-Dot .1mg.
Vivelle-Dot .075mg.
Vivelle-Dot .1mg.
Cenestin 1.25mg , 2.50mg. & back to 1.25mg.
Vivelle-Dot .1mg.
Just call me confused but at least I'm sleeping through the night now since I went back to .1mg patch. Anyway thanks for the good advice I will keep it in mind. Wish me luck!

Karen Marie,
Hey I can completely relate to the helpless confusion you feel. Many of us have been there so please feel free to hash it out here until it seems to make some sort of sense to you.
I know what you mean about hearing that some say you should reduce estrogen when starting progesterone...that comes from Dr. John Lee, in his book..."What your doctor did not tell you about menopause" You can read about it on his website if you do not have access to the book www.johnleemd.com
Most of us that have been at this awhile know that it really is best to pick one thing to change first. I realize that it is a bit unnerving to just pick one but much of this is trial and error. At some point it might be helpful to get some lab work done to determine where you are with estrogen testosterone and progesterone. If your doctor is knowledgable at reading these tests they can give him clues to what is going on with you. There are some that say don't bother testing, just treat based on symptoms...and some that say treat based on lab results. I advocate using both symptoms and lab results combined. It just gives you one more clue in this jungle. If you do have lab testing make sure you are on something for at least 4 weeks.
Now...on to your current dilemna. Generally I have read that starting doses for progesterone cream are aroun 20-25mg so perhaps dropping that one first makes the most sense. If that helps but does not completely do it for you then I would try splitting the dose 10mg in the am an 10mg in the pm. If that still does not do it completely then I would try lowering the estradiol(vivelle).
Again, remember that I am not a medical professional so make sure you check this with your doctor....just trying to help you lay out your options

Becky

Thanks Becky. I dropped the progesterone by about 1/16 tsp. last night and will continue to do so every night til I get to 1/8 tsp.
or see how I feel. I guess that would work the same as dropping the estrogen dosage as in it would be getting less progesterone
to turn over to estrogen, right? I can't decide if my estrogen is too high again or not I think it is but would like to make sure before I lower
it. If I were to have to drop the estrogen which dose do you think I should go to .05mg. or .075mg. I have both of these patches
here. Actually I think I have a small pharmacy here. When I used the progesterone last night it sure felt like too much estrogen
again so I do think it is turning it over to estradiol. Nervous about
dropping the estrogen again though. You've given me some good advice, thanks. Also anytime I make a change I could have hot flashes whether its changing the progesterone or the estrogen
is that right? Also if you have to much of one thing it could give you the same symptoms as too little, is that right? Hope you'll be able to answer. Hope you have a good labor day.

KarenMarie,
Symptoms can be tricky. Yes switching doses can stimulate hot flashes. And sometimes one hormone being low can make another seem high.
I want to remind you to change only one thing at a time and then stick with it for awhile to see how it is working. If you are still having symptoms like heart palpitations then perhaps it would be wise to let your doctor know.
I am not sure how many mg. are in 1/16th tsp. but I don't see the need ease the dose from 40-20 over days. Especially since you stated that you have only been using the cream for 2 weeks. I think if taking 40mg makes you feel that crummy then cutting it in half will give you a better indication of how it will work.
I would not consider lowering your patch until you have stabalized the progesterone for at least a week or more.
I got into trouble by doctoring myself and changing things all over the place from day to day. It is good that you are learning about how these things work but you still should be working with your physician before changing anything.
Has your doctor done any testing at any point to see your levels? Please feel free to email me if you like.
Becky in OHIO

Becky I will stay at the .1mg. vivelle for a while but will continue to lower the progesterone cream slowly til I get to 1/2 tsp or til
I feel better to see if this is it. Its so easy to want to change things fast to feel better that I have to restrain myself not to.
I might be wrong but it seems just that small change last night and I feel a bit better not much could be my imagination or wishful
thinking-don't feel so sedated but kinda dizzy still once in awhile.
I will let you know how it goes and I change this patch on tuesday hope to see a small difference then with the progesterone but realize it may take awhile. The palpat-
tions started when I started using the progesterone cream. My
reg. dr. thinks my doses were to high before, we are checking thyroid & for hypoglcemia but now I understand hypoglcemia symptoms
can be from too much estrogen-this from when I was taking the cenestin. This really is a jungle what a good name that was picked.
Will let you know how I 'am doing, take care.
Oh yeah, gyn said I could cut back on the progesterone cream but
he also said I didn't really need it - no uterus. He has been very willing to work with me though. I'm lucky.