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Got my Saliva Testing Results today Got my Saliva Testing Results today

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Unread 07-16-2000, 12:48 AM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

Hi Everyone, Today's mail brought my hormone testing results from Dr. Zava(The lab Dr. Lee mentions in his books). Here's what they showed:

Estradiol 2.0pg/ml Expected Range 2.0-10.0(with ERT)
Progesterone 149.0pg/ml 100-1000(w/Provera)
Ratio 74.5 pg/ml 200-1000

Testosterone 27.0pg/ml 20-50
DHEA-S 2.5ng/ml 3-10
Cortisol AM 2.2 ng/ml 3-8
Noon 1.1 ng/ml 2-4
Eve 0.9 ng/ml 1-2
Night0.7 ng/ml 0.5-1.5

Comments on the report were:
"Low Dheas and cortisol throughout most of day indicates adrenal exhaustion. Low Adrenal hormone production contributes to fatigue, allergies, chemical sensitivity, cold body temp, and sugar craving. Low cortisol can also exacerate symptoms of ow thyroid since cortisol is essential for thyroid function at the tissue level. Adrenal support worthwhile considering."

I am not sure I understand the ratio part of the Progesterone/Estradiol measures. Do any of you have a clear understanding of what that means?

I think its strange that my DHEAS is low, since when I was trying to get pregnant years ago, it was high and I was treated to suppress it (more than 10 years ago). Around tha t same 10 year mark, I was almost put on cortisol for the rest of my life because of low levels - looks like it continues to be a problem for me...

Rather than trying to find a sympathetic ob/gyn now, I think I am going to schedule a followup with an endocrinologist.

And, now at least I know that what I've been experiencing is not totally imagined either...I don't know where these results fit in with my migraine problems, but maybe by getting to the bottom of these low levels, my ability to fend off the migraines might also be least I can hope for that.

Sorry this so long! Barb
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Unread 07-16-2000, 01:45 AM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

That's really interesting about your adrenal history and how it might relate to your current levels. Looks like your suppression treatment may have been more effective than you thought. I think an appointment with an endocrinologist is exactly the right way to go at this point. Clearly, you aren't going to make progress until this is dealt with since adrenal health is also involved in your ovarian hormone balance.

As for the p/e ratio, this is the essence of balance. For both hormones to exert best effect, they must be present not only in the correct overall amounts, but in the correct proportions to each other as well. A low ratio indicates a balance tilted towards the stimulatory effects of the estrogen whereas a high one indicates the depressive, fatigued, low-libido, insulin-resistant end of the spectrum. Since your estrogen falls within the normal limit for this lab, I'd say that one could draw the inference that your migraines, if they are hormonal, might be due to a deficiency of progesterone relative to the estrogen. This goes along, of course, with the experience-based advice you've been getting here, I believe. Very interesting.

I hope this validation gives you the boost you need to keep your spirits up until you can work things out with your endocrinologist. Please keep us updated on how that's going--the adrenal connection is one that has been interesting to us but not terribly well demonstrated. In the meantime, are you going to re-evaluate your relationship with progesterone? [blue]
Unread 07-16-2000, 07:51 AM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

Hi Barb,
Very interesting! I was thinking about the progesterone levels when reading your report. The one thing that I'm sure about my experiment with taking oral bioidentical progesterone has been that my adrenals are definitely getting support. I feel so unstressed its silly. And I went shopping yesterday with my husband for 5 hours, with sandals with heels on, and helped him buy a ton of clothes -- I than came home and cleaned house for company. I was tired, but not stressed out at all. Have you checked Dr. Collins book for the relatinship between cortisol, DHEA and progesterone? I haven't read it in a while, but seem to remember good stuff. Stay in touch. We're alllearning from this.
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Unread 07-16-2000, 10:59 AM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

wow Barb thats very intesting. I had my hormone level tested as well by the doctor and mine was all messed up so i'm having them removed with my adhesions surgery and he knows a compunder so i can get my hormones from her its so nice to have a doctor the is so up to date on thing and i don't have to fight for anything. take care miss you tons warm and gentle hugs to you.
Unread 07-16-2000, 02:06 PM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

Savh, thanks so much for making things clearer on the p/e ratio business. I have read a lot of books plus stuff here and on other places on the net, but really didn't see much to explain the ratios to each other.

The very first thing I'm going to do is call to schedule an appointment with the endocrinologist. Depending upon how long its going to take to get in to see him, I may or may not change from the provera back to topical progesterone. I have not been very happy with the provera to start with, and I went on it to see if it affected the migraines...but I don't see any change and its been about 3 weeks now on the provera...but I had also used Pro-gest Cream for about 2 weeks before the dr. agreed to let me try the provera(I requested progesterone and got prescribed provera - along with the comment that they were having to change many of their patients off of prometrium due to side effects that weren't present with provera) - and I still had problems with the migraines. It just may be that its not going to be a quick and easy thing to resolve.

I did pick up Dr. Collins book again, Bethany, but he had very little related to adrenal exhaustion in it. There was quite a bit more in Dr. Lee's book. Plus I am going to spend some time on the web trying to get additional info.

I have had some of the problems/symptoms here throughout the years, but since my surgery, I feel the problems have intensified. I'm feeling very frustrated, and yet, hopeful, now that I have concrete evidence that there is a problem that hopefully will get addressed.

Barb, since it sounds like indeed your ovaries have taken up residence in the Bahamas instead of just vacationing, I think it will probably be a good thing for you to get them taken out. I am also very glad that you have found a dr. who you have confidence in and that he has indicated he will work with you! Thts a very important thing to have. Is he helping you now with hormones or waiting until the surgery has been done? The dr. that I am going to try to see is one I saw the 10 years ago - he took me seriously then, and I would still be going to him if he hadn't quit the clinic he was working out of to go run the residency program at the local hospital...but according to the insurance books, he is taking patients again now.(Internal Medicine specializing in Endocrinology - also board certified)

Thanks All, I will keep you posted on what I find out as things progress. I just have to keep my spirits up and hope that time brings positive changes.
Unread 07-16-2000, 02:08 PM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

One thing more, I did pick up out of Dr. Lee's books that natural progesterone is precursor to the adrenal that fact alone should make some impact on which directions I go from here.
Unread 07-16-2000, 03:25 PM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

Thanks Becky, I did go back to his site - It seems to have more info than I got out of his book regarding this p/e ratio.

Plus I went into the steroid pathway area of his web site - I do beleive you are right - looks like progesterone may be apart of the puzzle yet to be solved.

Thanks for the link.
Unread 07-16-2000, 04:25 PM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

I just want to sound a note of caution as you all stampede off to research adrenal fatigue and the cortisol/progesterone connection. "Adrenal fatigue" is one of those everyone-has-it/I-can-cure-the-world abusable things that generate a lot of totally bogus advice (followed by sales of a proprietary remedy and life plan) on the internet. I'm not saying that there is nothing to this--far from it. Those of you who've already been through these discussions back last winter are aware of my ongoing interest. But, as with progesterone use generally, there is just frankly a lot of rubbish out there under this banner. Be very very cautious in accepting claims that are not backed up by real science (not just someone's assertions). It isn't always clear and even "authorities" disagree (for example, Dr David Zava, who is researching progesterone actively and runs his own well-rspected testing lab, supports a steroid pathway model that shows some things directly reversed from Dr. Collins's, which is based on small studies mostly on animals). If you are in doubt about something you find, bring back a quote and ask us to decipher it or put it in perspective for you. [blue]
Unread 07-16-2000, 08:01 PM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

Thanks Savh, If I find anything worthwhile, I will either bring it back, or to your attention. I looked for a while today - but didn't find anything worthwhile - Searched under adrenal exhaustion, nearly everything I saw also related to chronic fatigue syndrome - I don't feel I'm there so I am skeptical about what I'm going to find under that topic.

And several of the sites that looked like they could be interesting were people trying to sell their nutritional supplements...I wasted my time today...and with another migraine I didn't take a lot of time to read a lot of sites.

I think I'll have more success under Intellihealth, Web MD, Discovery Health and places like them.

One particular word of thanks - Not only do I need to be reminded from time to time to take care in what I read off of the net, but I'm sure others need that reminder too. Keep on being a steady constant source of reliable direction! It is appreciated even if its not mentioned!
Unread 07-16-2000, 08:40 PM
Got my Saliva Testing Results today

Hi Barb
yep i agree with you to and my DH said off with there heads LOL since there weren't going to work right and i don't have any family history we felt it would be best. so there outta here LOL. warm and gentle hugs to you

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